The use of AI in our firms

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#1
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Since the promise of AI has been big news in the corporate world recently, I've been reading more about it with my newfound free time. Today I came across this press release:

Canopy Launches ChatGPT AI in Accounting Practice Management Software https://www.getcanopy.com/blog/canopy-l ... 2094406592

If you don't want to read the link, it says that Canopy Practice Management has integrated ChatGPT into the e-mail portion of its software and that it is currently able to draft e-mails to clients, to make changes to it (i.e. make the e-mail more formal or more friendly), and so forth.

I have some opinions on AI, but am curious about the rest of you: are you excited about AI? Interested? Skeptical? Frightened? What do you think the impact will be on your firm (more on the short-to-medium term), if any?
 

#2
Beagle  
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I'm skeptical that it will be workable in the next 5-10 years and that's my career timeline. Having said that, it will be a revolutionary change the way the internet changed things (if you are old enough to remember pre internet offices). It will automate things, it will be the computer interface Siri tries to be. Once it gets rolling it will make the interaction with computers far smoother and more intuitive.

I was in Paris last week and met with a guy who had been to a concert in London where ABBA was playing as a computer generated experience. He said it was easily the greatest concert he'd ever experienced and we talked about it for a while (his son worked on part of it and we laughed about the old holograms). He said what they have planned 10 years out will blow this away. I think ChatGPT is going to have a similar slow start but when it gets going it is just going to explode forward.
 

#3
smtcpa  
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If that's all it does for emails, Grammarly has been doing that for email and online documents for a number of years. I don't see that as a competitive advantage for them unless Canopy has plans for AI more than making minor changes to grammar. But I am definitely interested in how it will help us. I am thinking it will help draft answers to emails, do research, and write articles for client newsletters. I am skeptical of it replacing us but interested in how it will help us, especially given the lack of staff in this industry.
 

#4
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smtcpa wrote:If that's all it does for emails, Grammarly has been doing that for email and online documents for a number of years. I don't see that as a competitive advantage for them unless Canopy has plans for AI more than making minor changes to grammar. But I am definitely interested in how it will help us. I am thinking it will help draft answers to emails, do research, and write articles for client newsletters. I am skeptical of it replacing us but interested in how it will help us, especially given the lack of staff in this industry.


It's not just making grammar changes now; it's actually writing the entire e-mail draft for your review, which you can edit before sending or have the AI change the tone, etc. As for the future, I'm imagining that AI could be programmed on client documents, such that it could find a client's AGI from a tax return and draft an e-mail about whether the client might qualify for college tax credits, as an example.

Your last sentence is actually one of my concerns about AI, related to the lack of staff. I suspect that a lot of the excitement about AI in the corporate world is because C-levels desperately want to replace labor with technology and they will direct it to happen, without regard to whether the technology works as well as advertised or is even a good idea to implement. And it seems likely that our profession, which as a whole has completely failed to do anything about the current labor shortage (which we have known about for at least 15 years), will also attempt to use AI technology to "solve" the problem. But it's like taking an aspirin to relieve a headache instead of seeing a doctor; you're alleviating a symptom of a problem but you're not actually fixing it.

Beagle wrote:I'm skeptical that it will be workable in the next 5-10 years and that's my career timeline. Having said that, it will be a revolutionary change the way the internet changed things (if you are old enough to remember pre internet offices). It will automate things, it will be the computer interface Siri tries to be. Once it gets rolling it will make the interaction with computers far smoother and more intuitive.


That's a good point; if you're planning on retiring in the near term it might not make sense to implement the further technology.
 

#5
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I view AI integration as both an opportunity and a threat to CPA firms. Personally I'm pretty excited about it.

I believe CPA firms that embrace it will be able to more efficiently research and provide valuable planning opportunities to clients, and also deliver better client service as AI does heavy lifting on menial tasks.

Those that are late to the game or don't take it seriously will be left in the dust. One of my clients (a good client) mentioned he tried to use ChatGPT to figure an accounting issue out while I was on vacation because he didn't want to bother me. He admitted that he gave up because he couldn't make sense of what ChatGPT was telling him.

But it got me thinking, if ChatGPT was good enough to spit out advanced tax planning opportunities customized for an individual, and that individual's CPA firm hasn't put those planning opportunities on the client's radar, how long do you think that individual is going to stay with that firm?
 

#6
KoiCPA  
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I plan to investigate AI for tax research for sure. Not that I think I'll be able to trust the answers, but sometimes I just need a few key words or citations to make my regular research tools give me useful results. (Frankly, I hope the research tools themselves will build it in, but we'll see).

I'm less interested in using it for email communications. I don't doubt that it can be useful for composing the emails, but I do question the value of email for explaining tax concepts to clients. They just don't read them. (I get this exchange in email dozens of times a year: We tell them: "We uploaded your return through our secure portal at http:/..." and they reply with "You forgot to attach the return.")

Privacy needs to be a concern. I don't understand all the risks right now, but you can read about Samsung and how sensitive computer code was leaked through ChatGPT. So I think we have to treat the AI like any other third party and prevent personal information from being used in our searches. I can sanitize research requests, but if it's handling client email, that isn't an option.
 

#7
lckent  
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I have asked ChatGTP a few test tax questions. All answers sounded authoritative, but had serious errors or omissions. It will be awhile for me.
CPA, Retired
 

#8
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ManVsTax wrote:But it got me thinking, if ChatGPT was good enough to spit out advanced tax planning opportunities customized for an individual, and that individual's CPA firm hasn't put those planning opportunities on the client's radar, how long do you think that individual is going to stay with that firm?


I think I'm a little less enthusiastic on the technology than you are, because I'm unconvinced that GPT technologies can be good enough to spit out tax planning opportunities. Fundamentally, they lack knowledge or understanding as they are language models, not conceptual frameworks. GPT should be able, without much difficulty, to advise you that a DAF exists, but as just a language model I have a hard time seeing how it could actually advise on whether it's the right move or not for a specific client. Or something like depreciation -- currently it could explain what the options are, but I don't see how it could actually advise on it.

As I write this answer, I'm wondering if a lot of my concern is that because AI stands for artificial intelligence, and the GPT technology isn't intelligence, but that people are just going to confuse the two concepts and misapply the technology.

KoiCPA wrote:Privacy needs to be a concern. I don't understand all the risks right now, but you can read about Samsung and how sensitive computer code was leaked through ChatGPT. So I think we have to treat the AI like any other third party and prevent personal information from being used in our searches. I can sanitize research requests, but if it's handling client email, that isn't an option.


Yeah, in that case Canopy is actually involved in the e-mail and I don't know if there is a way to sanitize the feature. I read earlier today that Karbon is also implementing AI on the e-mail side as well, so I perhaps they must have found a way to resolve these sorts of concerns.

lckent wrote:I have asked ChatGTP a few test tax questions. All answers sounded authoritative, but had serious errors or omissions. It will be awhile for me.


I've had serious errors in tax law in my tests of ChatGPT as well. Still, it's probably not worse than the tax advice from TikTok :lol:
 

#9
MilesR  
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I've been using Google's Bard and it has been pretty great. It has been very helpful in finding parts of the code to review.
Additionally I just used it to write a great letter for terminating clients as well as writing letters to the IRS. You just tell it you want to write a letter to abate a late filing penalty due to reasonable cause and here's my reason, and it spits it out with minor tweaks needed.

I also have used it for help with instructions for preparing certain forms and filing under Rev procs. It is very new and has some room to improve but it seems to be a very promising tool.
 

#10
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missingdonut wrote:I think I'm a little less enthusiastic on the technology than you are, because I'm unconvinced that GPT technologies can be good enough to spit out tax planning opportunities. Fundamentally, they lack knowledge or understanding as they are language models, not conceptual frameworks. GPT should be able, without much difficulty, to advise you that a DAF exists, but as just a language model I have a hard time seeing how it could actually advise on whether it's the right move or not for a specific client. Or something like depreciation -- currently it could explain what the options are, but I don't see how it could actually advise on it.

As I write this answer, I'm wondering if a lot of my concern is that because AI stands for artificial intelligence, and the GPT technology isn't intelligence, but that people are just going to confuse the two concepts and misapply the technology.


What I was getting at is I think we'll all be very surprised about what the future holds. Even 5 or 10 years out.
 

#11
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Sorry to be a Negative Nancy, but I don't think we are in for a "good" surprise.

I don't necessarily think we are doomed, as tax practitioners or as humans, but abusers and bad actors will have a heyday with AI.

I don't think it will be enjoyable.
 

#12
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Was it Alan Turing who said computers and humans would eventually merge? I read it in “Spycatcher” in the 1980s. That was an autobiography that was as much fiction as fact, but I fear that bit may have been accurate.
 

#13
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ItDepends wrote:Sorry to be a Negative Nancy, but I don't think we are in for a "good" surprise.

I don't necessarily think we are doomed, as tax practitioners or as humans, but abusers and bad actors will have a heyday with AI.

I don't think it will be enjoyable.


It all started at 2:14 a.m., EDT, on August 29, 1997…
 

#14
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SumwunLost wrote:Was it Alan Turing who said computers and humans would eventually merge? I read it in “Spycatcher” in the 1980s. That was an autobiography that was as much fiction as fact, but I fear that bit may have been accurate.


That is what Neuralink is working toward. The idea behind it is that the bandwidth between humans and computers right now is very low, as we have to type or speak input into a computer and the computer visually displays the output or speaks it aloud. Neuralink would greatly increase the bandwidth by cutting out all of that. The brain would interface directly with a computer.

RazorbackCPA wrote:It all started at 2:14 a.m., EDT, on August 29, 1997…


I guess I should start treating my Roomba better.
 

#15
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SumwunLost wrote:Was it Alan Turing who said computers and humans would eventually merge?



It will save a lot of time on travel. Just upload your memory and email it to where you are going. Then download it into your robot body of actuators at the new location. It's still you.

You would be immortal as well, of course.

No pain, etc.

But if you were a bad "person" (memory code) and were due the death penalty you would be deleted.

Unless you were just deleted to a recycle bin, of which all deleted criminals could be restored to form an army of digital mercenaries.

Maybe they could modify your code so you weren't bad anymore.

What could possibly go wrong?
 

#16
TAXTAX  
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I have asked Chat GPT to write me a letter to tell my new client that I will not give him a professional courtesy and tell him straightly my fee. The letter works. I got the client and charged him the fee that I set. :D
 

#17
wel  
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ChatGPT is incredible, but when you use it you need to remember that it is a "language processing tool". It can generate content that looks, and often is, very good - but it may not be technically correct.

I first started using it about 6 weeks or so ago, as I'd heard of accountants using it to write collections letters, etc. on a podcast. That same day, I receive an email from a new client that happens to be an attorney. They were upset that they didn't receive a certain tax credit on their tax return. Historically, I've often spent 30+ minutes crafting a response to this type of email, as I want to make sure that things are worded correctly while not offending the client. After double-checking to confirm that the client definitely did not qualify for the credit, I gave ChatGPT a try. In about 2 minutes, it produced a very well written response. I spent about a minute editing the response and sent it. In total, I had a better response in under 5 minutes than I would have had in 30+ minutes without ChatGPT.

If you haven't tried it, I recommend playing with it.
 

#18
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Has anyone thought about 7216 issues with ChatGPT and its friends? I freely admit I have never used it, but if it learns by collecting knowledge, does that mean it will collect anything you edit? What if the edit contains PII?

I imagine this isn’t too far away from plagiarism detectors. About three years ago, I submitted a paper in a college course and it thought it detected numerous plagiarized pieces, one of which was listed as “Lost, Sumwun; The War of 1812 (2005).” Bloody heck, a paper I wrote in my first semester in this country is floating around the internet, just waiting to see if I’m being plagiarized.

(Yes, I know self-plagiarism is a thing, but the flagged sentence could have been written by anybody)
 

#19
MWEA  
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I personally think it’s going to impact all of us significantly in a timeline that surprises almost everyone on here.

I’ve been experimenting with it. One thing I do for client reviews is copy/paste comparative financials into GPT and ask it for 25 insights into the financials. It gives remarkable clarity. I then ask for financial ratios on those financials. It will also give me industry specific KPI’s with surprisingly accurate insight. Amazing in its infancy.

GPT4 can already do most 1040’s. The integrations will be there amazingly fast. My guess from listening to other thought leaders is we’ll go to an industry specific chart of accounts, the bank data will be fed into a program, a set of financials will be generated, our tax software will auto populate from those financials, and the return will be 95% done. We’ll probably just review the set of financials and make any tax planning or elections before being done. I don’t know if this will be in place for this upcoming year (maybe), but it will be for the following.

I think 90% of the compliance work will be automated in 12 months. For now at least, the planning and setting up the integrations for clients will still have some value. This is rapidly changing every day!
 

#20
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My previously sci-fi-like reply perhaps belongs in the PFZ forum, but more seriously, for all but those who will retire soon, you will have no choice as to embrace it in the beginning. This is good in a few ways because it will save time and reduce liability exposure.

In the long run, however, science fiction aside, I am not excited about it, and it will replace us.

The threat of AI replacements is not limited to tax preparers, auditors, and accountants, of course.

For example, AI is ALREADY outperforming doctors in cancer diagnosis, treatment, and survival predictions.

So this thought holds true for insurance brokers, mortgage professionals, computer programmers, doctors, lawyers/judges, mental health therapists, engineers, restaurants and food services, pilots, truck drivers, farms, real estate professionals, road maintenance, law enforcement, government workers, home builders, soldiers, and the list goes on and on.

Even if we were still needed, who would be left to be our clients?

In the meantime, yes, it only makes sense to use the technology just like we started to embraced tax software in the 1970s (my CPA father had a Sperry/Univac BC7 that took up a quarter of a room when I was a child).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Lr9MK67R5c
 

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