What can we learn from Block?

Software. Marketing. Training. Running your business.
#1
Posts:
44
Joined:
2-Jun-2014 7:20pm
Location:
California
Hello World!

Long time listener, first time caller. I am saddened by the loss of The Taxalmanac web sight, although I only discovered it recently, I have gained a tremendous amount of knowledge from it, and therefore from all of you and I would just like to share my appreciation.

I am a newbie, currently self-studying for the EA exam. I want to start working in this industry next tax season. My ambition is to open a small Tax business and grow it into a full time practice.

Question:
Suppose I choose to go and get tax experience at H&R Block, will I just be doing individual 1040‘s?
Will they allow me to work on any business/corp/partnership taxes?
Also, I am looking to get practical hands-on experience doing bookkeeping and payroll. I know that H&R block offers these services. Can I request to work on those projects at H&R?


Thank all of you
 

#2
Posts:
3768
Joined:
21-Apr-2014 11:24am
Location:
North Carolina
Block gives one a good grounding in basic 1040's. I look back on my time there with some fondness. You may be lucky to get a Schedule C or E in your first season. I did, but then I had fifteen years of tax experience in the UK. Apparently this made me a US tax expert.

I was not aware that Block offered payroll & bookkeeping services. I should imagine the payroll is centralized and probably heavily automated. Payroll is very time-sensitive, so I could easily see that the payroll employees do nothing else. I may be wrong, of course. Bookkeeping may well be done only at the "premium" offices.

As I see it, you have two options. You could either try to get employment with a CPA or EA firm for next season or you could spend a season at Block working for low wages and getting good experience, which will make you more marketable to a CPA/EA firm in the following season. That's how it worked for me.

One thing you have to be very careful of is the contract that Block makes you sign. My contract prohibited me from working for firms that might compete for the same clients as Block in a six-county area for two years.

Finally, one wee thing to think about. When I was learning my craft in the UK, I moved employers every two or, at most, three years. I went to firms that were prepared to utilize my existing skills and help me learn new ones. I had a rare skill to start with (employment tax audits) which was extremely valuable to every employer I worked for. In return, I got broader experience than I would have had at one firm. Everybody won except the UK Treasury!
 

#3
Posts:
60
Joined:
23-Apr-2014 9:12am
Location:
Portland, Oregon
I got my start at Block, and can perhaps contribute to this discussion because of that.

If you're new, and pass the EA, Block will certainly be inclined to hire you. If you haven't yet passed the EA by next season, they will require you to have completed a 60-65 hour class they provide (and in some states, notably Oregon, you MUST complete an 82-hour class PLUS pass the state exam). That class has already started in most areas, although they usually have a "racehorse" version starting in August or even early September.

Block does offer corporate tax prep and accounting services, but insofar as I know these are ONLY provided at their so-called "Premium" offices, generally by year-round staff. As a seasonal worker you will only be doing 1040 work. The software (TPS) won't do corporate at all.

Benefits of working at Block: you learn to do the entire process, from initial meeting with the client to final printing of the return. I was doing plenty of Sch. C's and E's in my first year there, and I imagine that's only increased as they've been forced to move away from their previous focus on bank products (Refund Anticipation Loans). Do not underestimate the value of learning how to greet and work with a client. I've known plenty of preparers who, trying to open their own office, discovered they were almost incapable of actually chatting with a client, getting the info as required, etc. One other advantage of working at Block was that -- at least in Portland in the early aughts -- when I had an issue I couldn't figure out, I had no fewer than 3 or 4 people I could call, including the District Manager (who was fantastic in our district).

You will generally see a wide variety of tax situations, and thus get a lot of experience quickly. Within two years I was typically doing something like 120 to 140 returns per season (some preparers did 3-4 times as many).

If you go to work for a CPA or EA, you most likely will be parked in a back room, never even speak to a client, and be judged strictly on how fast you crank out work for your hourly wage. Block, at least, lets you out to see daylight and real people.

Disadvantages, unfortunately, are significant. First, the pay is wretched. They pay you minimum wage or just a little more against commission. Commissions are low (typically 1-2% higher for EAs, however, than for unenrolled preparers), and MOST preparers -- especially new ones -- do not actually complete returns quickly enough to have their commissions exceed the hourly wage.

When I was working at Block (a franchisee, actually, that controlled all of Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Utah, and part of Northern California), they hired you for the entire season. Corporate eventually took over, and I understand that these days they cheerfully lay preparers off in the middle of the season for a few weeks (so you work during the February rush, and then the late March-April grind). It sucks, and usually you haven't worked long enough to qualify for unemployment.

Training is great at the classroom level; the Block class I mentioned above is really quite interesting and thorough, I even saw some CPAs taking it just to brush up on basics they never got in college. But in-office training was close to non-existent, and you end up either teaching yourself (while giving customers poor service), or begging more experienced colleagues to help you on a daily basis. They never taught us, for example, all the things to ask a client. When a guy came in with 6 rental units and his depreciation schedule was a catastrophe, I had no idea I needed to do a Form 3115 Change in Accounting Method to put it right. That complex form was never taught, so I muddled through and almost certainly made the situation worse. I cringe even now when I think about it, 14 or 15 years later.

Block's entire model is built on doing returns in a "while you wait" mode. So the client is watching you every step of the way, and you are rushing the entire process. This is the only way to make any money there, but is also a great way to provide crappy results to the client.

Speaking of which, quality control is also wretched: we had no effective review process. Not a big deal when all you're facing are simple W2 1040s, but it's a huge deal when (usually later in the season) more complex returns arrive. If you have pride in yourself and your work, you will eventually wake up many nights realizing mistakes you made that NO ONE caught since there was no review.

Other ways they shortchange you: on April 15th at closing time, you're fired. Client sucked up hours of your time for a complex return, then decided to come in on the 18th to pick up and sign because he's getting a refund and so the deadline didn't matter? That's great for Block, which keeps the entire fee. Not so great for you, because you get nothing apart from your minimum wage for the hours worked.

My last year with Block, we had a CPA working in our office. The guy quit a week before April 15th. THEN half his returns walked back in that week, full of errors. I got all the pleasure of fixing them (because I was and am conscientious) ... but he still got credit as the preparer. I was pleased when, a few years later, the guy was sanctioned by the State of Oregon to the tune of $75,000 for illegal work.

Hope this gives you some insight into how Block does things. I imagine Jackson-Hewitt and Liberty are much the same.
 

#4
Frankly  
Moderator
Posts:
2485
Joined:
21-Apr-2014 9:08am
Location:
California
PDXTaxman wrote: Block's entire model is built on doing returns in a "while you wait" mode. So the client is watching you every step of the way, and you are rushing the entire process. This is the only way to make any money there, but is also a great way to provide crappy results to the client.

The chains make easy for the next guy to be a hero.
 

#5
Posts:
60
Joined:
23-Apr-2014 9:12am
Location:
Portland, Oregon
Exactly!
 

#6
Posts:
281
Joined:
23-Apr-2014 2:03pm
Location:
Massachusetts
Let me add my two cents, having been with Block for several years.

There's a tremendous variation between offices, between districts, and even between regions. Most people don't even appreciate the differences, and assume that all offices or districts are the same. They're wrong.

I was lucky to start out with a great office leader and a great manager, in a very busy office, and was given more opportunity than most first year tax pros. But there will always be some offices whose only need is for an additional preparer to do the easy returns during the busy season, and if you get stuck there, no matter how good you are, it will be a disappointing season. A good DM will reassign you the next year if possible - it's not always possible.

They're not going to trust you with the entity returns unless you can prove yourself first or they have an unusual need. Also, bookkeeping, payroll, and other business services will have even more variation - from nothing within 100 miles to significant opportunity. But you'll only gain entry into this work if there's an opening close to you - which isn't very common.

So my advice to someone pursuing the EA and looking at this as a serious career is to apply, ask to speak to the DM before accepting the position, and discuss your concerns. At the same time, join the local chapter of the NAEA and/or NATP and go to their meetings. You may or may not find better opportunities there, but the networking is nevertheless invaluable.

PS: I actually did a season with Block a decade before returning for real, back in the early nineties. I was gainfully employed during the day with a computer company rapidly going downhill, and sought other work to exercise my brain. At that time, every return I did was reviewed overnight, and any errors sent back to me. I think I had only two that season, one of which was either a missing 401K or DCB entry. So there was real quality control back then. Nowadays, they rely more on the computer, such as double entry of many items, including DCBs. The software quality engineer in me knows it's not enough, but I don't know that it could realistically be much better. But I believe that every firm makes mistakes. I'm sure I do; mine are just much harder to detect.
 


Return to Business Operations and Development



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests