Lacerte / Proseries DMS Discontinued

Hi all,
We haven't gotten our renewal notice from Proseries yet, but I have heard from another chat board that both Lacerte and Proseries will discontinue DMS for the coming tax season. They may offer a cloud based system, but that is not something we are interested in at this time. We have ten plus years of tax data saved in DMS and our office workflow is built around it.

Anyone else in the same situation? Any recommendations for other document management systems? Any other tax software with integrated document management systems that folks can recommend? We've been using Proseries for fifteen years, but we are very irritated with Intuit.

-Riki

We use Lacerte. We print a PDF File copy of the complete return at the same time we print the client's copy. We also don't save/copy/scan client's original doc's, so we have no need for DMS.

I remember a few year's ago, Lacerte combined Tax Planner, DMS and something else into what they called a Productivity Suite. We only wanted Tax Planner. But now we had to pay for all 3 things as a suite. I wonder if they are going to drop the price of this "suite" now that DMS is going away. Hah!!

I looked at DMS when it first came out. I could not for the life of me see why anyone would buy it when you can just print to pdf like Wiles explained above. I have four directories within each client directory: correspondence, diags, returns, workpapers. If a client has a large volume of documents that I receive electronically, I set up another directory for originals. I might set up another directory if there is another material project. Everything gets scanned and saved or printed to pdf and saved. Very easy.

Before getting Proseries DMS, we did set up a directory structure in Windows to try to organize our files. We do scan all the client's original documents and save PDF copies of tax returns & e-mails. When scanning and saving files, we would have to find the correct client folder, and then drill down to the individual subfolder to save the file. The folders and subfolders had to be set up individually and manually.

We found that DMS streamlined everything, as we were able to export all our clients from Proseries at once and it set up a uniform folder structure with a customizable template. It is very easy to navigate to a client and find the appropriate folders and also their contact information. With the client open in DMS, we can print to DMS and it will open to the correct client. Printing tax returns or other forms from within the tax software to DMS would go to the correct client and folder as it matches via SSN, and we could do that in bulk. You can also save MS Word and Excel files directly to the DMS folder in native format.

Though you could also scan and annotate within DMS, we typically used Adobe Acrobat for scanning as it has more features and produced more compact files. However, the DMS scanning was excellent for scanning single pages. It has a logging function, so you can see which client folders have had activity during certain time periods, and can do a file search, which is more focused than a regular Windows search.

That said, Proseries DMS could be buggy, especially as our database grew larger. We were hoping that Intuit would eventually put effort into developing a DMS 2.0, but apparently they have no interest. We purchased DMS in 2006, and gradually scanned in all the older files of our long-time clients. I often go back and have to find something ancient, and it is great to have it easy to find. (Had to track the depreciation portion of standard mileage for a client back to 1998 recently, as well as find old HUD-1s and old brokerage statements for cost basis on a regular basis.) So, we are sold on having a document management system of some sort.

We do export our DMS database regularly to a regular Windows folder/subfolder directory, so we can keep going that way when DMS bites the dust, but I'm hoping to find a new document management system that has more functionality.

-Riki

I'm with Wiles. Never used it and when they combined this with the tax planner I even called them and told them it was not something I would ever use. Must have had many such comments or they would not be discontinuing this product. Invest in a really good scanner and your on the road to going paperless.

I purchased the business version of Dropbox.com a few years ago to archive my files and set up a windows file structure for each client. It works very well and you can share a folder with you client so that they always have access to a PDF copy of their return. My clients love it. It also integrates with salesforce if you use that.

UltraTax provides optional FileCabinet module ($$) which makes integration with tax preparation fairly easy. I used this system for two years when I worked for another EA in a busy office. I now have a solo practice, where I have both ProSeries and UltraTax clients under PPR license. All my new clients inevitably go to UltraTax (unless they are complicated and provide me a prior year TurboTax file to convert) so that tells you something about which product is better all-around. Surprisingly, UltraTax PPR is cheaper than ProSeries PPR, at least through 2013 tax year.

In a LinkedIn tax discussion group, an employee of EFileCabinet recently started a topic thread almost identical to this one and offered his own firm's product as a viable alternative - I use the SecureDrawer product but have not used the EFileCabinet product, so I can't comment (other than to tell him I thought his post was spam).

I have used DMS since 2005, really not sure what I will do now. Like others have said, I have almost 10 years of data, I don't understand the people who said they just print to pdf, do you have to find the right folder with each tax return you print? In DMS in automatically finds the right client folder, can you set it up to print to PDF like that? What about all of the data we have in it now?
I looked at the alternative they are offering, it sounds kind of pricey to me, $360 a year isn't too bad but that's only for 2 users, then it's $180 a user after that, I have 4 people in my office, that just seems pretty expensive to me to pay every year. And it appears I would need a website to be able to send clients a copy of their tax returns, maybe I'm wrong there but that's what it seems like. I don't have a web site, I know most people probably do but I really don't see that I need one, I have more business than I can handle, I'm not trying to attract new clients, I don't need a website. And I'm not too thrilled with it being cloud based, I still don't like the idea that if the internet goes out we can't access anything.
So would anyone be so kind as to be a little bit more detailed on how you print to pdf? How you set up the files? We currently scan in all of our work papers in addition to the printing the tax return to DMS. I guess the bottom line is that if I don't got with Smart Vault, and I don't think I will, that I won't be able to set up Lacerte so that the return prints directly to the client file.

Kathy, I have an application (you can get a free version) called Bullzip and it's a PDF printer. When I select Print, it's listed as one of the printers. I can then select the folder I want, give it a file name and then save the file. My tax software and Quickbooks has a feature to print to a PDF as well.

For my tax clients, I have a folder for each client and in the client folders, I break it down by year. I scan the tax documents into a PDF file and choose the Print PDF option on my software to get a PDF copy of the tax return.

These files get backed up to Carbonite (one computer, $60 a year).

You can encrypt the PDF file with a password. Then you can email that to the clients.

Kathyt, We print to PDF using Lacerte's built-in print to PDF File feature. We don't bother selecting the client folder, we just print everything into a single folder, e.g. "2013 Tax Returns". Lacerte automatically puts the client number in the name of the file, so the retrieval is easy.

We don't scan client doc's like 1099s, 1098s, donation receipts, ... That's just a waste of time. We do however, scan a copy of the W-2 and the Tax Organizer. Again, those all just go into a single folder, "2013 Tax Organizers". Our scanner has a built in keyboard so we name the pdf file the same as the client number for easy retrieval.

We do have specific client folders with subfolders for each year. This is where we keep stuff like QuickBooks files, XLS and Word doc's.

I don't understand the people who said they just print to pdf, do you have to find the right folder with each tax return you print? In DMS in automatically finds the right client folder, can you set it up to print to PDF like that? What about all of the data we have in it now? So would anyone be so kind as to be a little bit more detailed on how you print to pdf?

Hi Kathy
I use Proseries so my set up might be slightly different.

I set up Proseries to print all pdf returns to the desktop. I then move them from the desktop to the appropriate client folder. When I "print" the tax returns I print (in pdf form) the filing copy, the taxpayer copy and the preparer copy (which as stated earlier go directly to the desktop). After I print them to the desktop I move them to the folder of my choice.

How you set up the files? We currently scan in all of our work papers in addition to the printing the tax return to DMS. I guess the bottom line is that if I don't got with Smart Vault, and I don't think I will, that I won't be able to set up Lacerte so that the return prints directly to the client file.

I scan all of my paperwork as well. I scan the organizer, source documents (W-2 forms, 1099 forms, 1098 forms, brokerage statements, K-1s) essentially any document that supports the tax return. The only exception to this in my practice is that I do not scan detailed receipts (a few clients give me stacks of receipts and I do not scan each and every one of those if the taxpayer has all ready recapped them and put the total in the organizer).

On my hard drive I set up a folder for each client, then under the client name I set up a folder for each tax year, under each tax year I have a folders segregated the way that I like them. Here's my file set up:

Smith, John (a folder with the name of the client)

>2013 (a folder under the clients name with the appropriate tax year). Then under each year I have the following folders:

>>Client's disk(a file folder that contains the files that I burn onto a CD for the client, this CD contains a "filing copy" of the tax returns, the "taxpayer copy" of the tax returns, and a copy of the client's source documents).

>>Supporting documents (a folder that contains a scanned copy of all of the client's supporting documents and any other supporting documents that I used to prepare the return including results of research or tax preparation notes, etc).

>>Internal use only folder(this is a folder in which I put my tax return billing information.)

>>Tax returns folder (in this folder I place my copies of the client's tax returns).

This system has worked very well in my practice. Occasionally I will have a client call me and ask me some question related to their tax return information and I can click on the client name, then click on the appropriate year and then either open the return or the source documents or both. So if John Smith calls me in June and says "Hey Tick, what was my W-2 income in 2011?" I can click on the folder "smith, john," click on "2011" folder, click on the "tax returns" folder and open the return and/or click on the supporting documents folder and open copies of the client's W-2 forms. So in a matter of a few clicks I can look at the client return and/or supporting documents.

I have been using this system for six years for me it works very well.

Dual monitors are very helpful and obviously a good back up regiment is mandatory.

Thanks for the feedback. I am not sure these methods would work for me, I prepared 674 individual tax returns during this past tax season, have 108 on extension, not to mention the corporation and partnership returns, or the bookkeeping files we have, I just don't think one big folder with everyone's tax info in it would work for me, it seems like it would be a lot more work to find the file, I guess I am used to DMS, find the name, and there is the entire client file going back about 10 years. I guess I don't need 10 years but it sure is nice to have when you do need it. With DMS it is so easy to find and organize files, and I don't have to set up new clients, it does it automatically.... okay enough with my whining.
Not sure printing to the desktop would work either, it just seems like I might get busy and forget to drag it over to the file, or say, "I'll do it later" and have a completely full desktop, I don't know, maybe I'd get used to it. I do appreciate the feedback though, I'm going to think about it.

kathyt, we have about double that. We use a separate folder for each year "2012 Tax Returns", "2013 Tax Returns", ... Lacerte automatically adds the client number to the name of the pdf. There is zero time on the front because we don't have to bother saving the file into any particular client folder / year.

Yes, there are close to 1,500 files in that folder, but retrieving the pdf is a breeze . We go to the folder, e.g. "2013 Tax Returns", type the client number into Windows Explorer search field and ouila there is the file. It's less than 3 seconds. It is probably less time than it takes double clicking through a tree of folders & subfolders.

One more benefit - Since all files are in a single folder, this makes it very easy to archive & remove all of these files when that time comes.

I looked at the alternative they are offering, it sounds kind of pricey to me, $360 a year isn't too bad but that's only for 2 users, then it's $180 a user after that, I have 4 people in my office, that just seems pretty expensive to me to pay every year.

For a dollar per client you could pay for the replacement DMS system. But, expect a big learning curve, and more importanly, 3 years or more of frustration while they work out the ProSeries integration bugs.

Well I just set up a folder & printed a handful of returns to it, tried searching, and you are right, it was pretty quick, about the same as DMS. I'm going to play around with it like this. What's a fast way to scan documents into there?

Our scanners allow us to set up buttons for specific folders that we can scan directly into. (Where are you Spell Czech?) We also type the name of the file on the scanners on-screen keyboard. We just name the file the clients 6 digit client code, e.g "013574.pdf"

BTW, we put our scanned Organizers in a separate folder. A pdf of a scanned document takes up more disk space than a print-to-pdf document. It is very likely we will be archiving & removing our Organizer folder years ahead of our Tax Returns folder.

Riki have you decided what route you are going yet? I'm still undecided if I want to go the route others have mentioned here or get another DMS program; I'm looking at e-file cabinet this afternoon, have a demo scheduled. Anyone have any experience with it? You have the option of cloud based or not, so I like that. Will post what I think of it after the demo for anyone who is interested.

I received an e-mail from Lacerte yesterday that they are replacing DMS with a client portal system partnering with SmartVault. I am very interested to see how this works. If this can replace our tax return assembly & delivery functions, then this could be extremely useful.

We have been using DMS to store client supporting docs, copies of organizers, emails and our processing notes. We don't print a copy of the return to DMS - We lock the client in Lacerte after the EF acceptance. All of our data is backed up daily through an online service - Steelgate (I am not affiliated with them). They are HIPAA and Sarbanes-Oxley compliant. I have successfully restored files from them and I am relatively happy with the service.

I do not like the idea of a cloud based service to store all of this data. Many of my clients are skittish of online portals. I do have this option with my current secure site provider LeapFile (again - no affiliation). I have a branded secure website (provided by LeapFile), but the files are not stored in the cloud (unless we choose to set up a portal option). Currently, I utilize portals mostly for my business clients. For individuals, we send them a copy of the return and a separate file with the e-file signature pages through LeapFile. The clients need to type in a password to access the files and access terminates 8 hours after their first access.

My concerns with SmartVault:
1. Pricing (as relates to number of users and storage)
2. Cloud storage of client private information
3. Options to Archive data locally??
4. Clients will not like portals (security issues and another password to remember)
5. Clients can upload data to the portals (nice option for security, but storage will become an issue...an expensive one)

I am attending a local chapter of a Lacerte Users Group on Friday. I will post an update if I find out anything useful. It sounds like the decision has already been made by Intuit, so I am not sure if we will get anywhere.

Great info, Leslie. Please keep us updated.