Efiling date stamp

Technical topics regarding tax preparation.
#1
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ProFx saying IRS will use the vendor's time zone. I thought it was time zone of the preparer or if self-prepared, the taxpaper.

https://www.irs.gov/e-file-providers/el ... c-postmark

Len Raphael
 

#2
makbo  
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lenraphael wrote:ProFx saying IRS will use the vendor's time zone. I thought it was time zone of the preparer or if self-prepared, the taxpaper.

Inconsistent terminology. IRS does not use terms like "Vendor" or "Preparer", it uses terms like "transmitter" and "ERO".

From your link, it is correctly stating that the vendor (transmitter) time zone is used. You, the preparer, are not the transmitter, you are the ERO.

"The Transmitter creates the electronic postmark bearing the date and time (in the Transmitter's time zone) that the return is received at the Transmitter's host computer. "

[edit: I now realize this is likely related to an extended entity filing you made late last night, perhaps too late, if so you have my sympathy]

[edit #2: but see posts below about taxpayer time zone]
Last edited by makbo on 18-Sep-2018 10:09am, edited 1 time in total.
 

#3
Joan TB  
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I just looked at the details of the last return I filed last night. The "received by Lacerte" stamp says 9/17/18 at 6:51pm PDT. Makes sense because I sent it about 8:50pm from Texas. So I guess I gained 2 hours on the efile clock. The "sent to the IRS" says the transmitter's postmark is 9/17/18 at 6:51pm PDT.

I think I knew that Lacerte used California time on their transmittals, but never really thought about it much. Hopefully I will never need to rely on that extra two hours. Wonder what time stamp Lacerte users get in Hawaii?

So what time zone is ProFx using? That would really stink if a preparer lost 2-3 hours by the time zone difference! One more thing to consider when looking at changing vendors??
 

#4
Joan TB  
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From the IRS website:
The taxpayer must adjust the electronic postmark to the time zone where the taxpayer resides to determine the postmark’s actual time. For example, if the Transmitter provides an electronic postmark with a time in the Pacific Time Zone but the taxpayer resides in the Eastern Time Zone, the taxpayer must add three hours to the postmark time to determine the actual postmark time (Eastern Time Zone).


So does this mean that no matter what time zone the transmitter uses to put on the time stamp, you always adjust to the taxpayer's time zone to the "actual time"? (So I don't get those extra 2 hours? LOL)
 

#5
makbo  
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I think I didn't read far enough, and you are correct after all, the taxpayer's time zone, not the transmitter's, is the actual postmark date used. Either that, or the IRS web site is confusing!

For example, how does the IRS know what time zone the ERO or taxpayer was in, when the return was submitted to the transmitter? It does not appear to be part of the ACK information. The web site says "time zone where the taxpayer resides", so does it just go off the mailing address on the return?
 

#6
Doug M  
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Len:

I am also in PDT zone and use prosystemfx. Any return that I submit between 10 pm and midnight (PDT) gets a midnight time stamp. They have consistently done this for years. Go into ELF and look up that return. Search by name. Then click on the return id link. It will bring up the return history. Look in the upper right hand corner and it shows the e-Postmark. It will show the time and date there.
 

#7
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yeah, and that was the ProFx efiling support tech giving me the wrong info.
 

#8
makbo  
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Doug M wrote: Any return that I submit between 10 pm and midnight (PDT) gets a midnight time stamp. They have consistently done this for years.

I'm still curious how the timezone of the taxpayer is determined. How does ProFX know what time zone your taxpayer is in when the return is filed, especially if the address on the return is a P.O. Box?

Then again, I often wonder, is the IRS really going to spend time enforcing this, or maybe, without admitting it, they just accept any returns filed by 3 AM Eastern Time as timely (at least for the contiguous states -- Alaska and Hawaii are each one extra time zone).
 

#9
sjrcpa  
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Since the preparer is submitting the return, shouldn't it be the preparer's time zone? I wonder about that.
 

#10
Doug M  
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Pub 1345 (starting on page 36) describes how to determine a timely postmark. It says, indirectly, the transmitter uses an electronic postmark using their time zone, and you need to adjust that time/date stamp to your time zone. I find it odd that providing the electronic postmark is optional.
 

#11
DAJCPA  
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Doug M wrote:Len:

I am also in PDT zone and use prosystemfx. Any return that I submit between 10 pm and midnight (PDT) gets a midnight time stamp. They have consistently done this for years. Go into ELF and look up that return. Search by name. Then click on the return id link. It will bring up the return history. Look in the upper right hand corner and it shows the e-Postmark. It will show the time and date there.


In the past we have noticed this e-postmark date done by Prosystem. If the extension or return was filed between 11pm and midnight our time (Mountain time) and therefore between 12am and 1am the following day (Central time), the e-postmark date was 12am of the date we sent the efile to Prosystem (basically almost 24 hrs before the actual time we sent the e-file). However this year all e-postmarks are the actual Central day and time. It was a rough last day for us, ran behind all day, and we ended up filing some extensions at 11:02 pm Mountain time on 4/18/22. In the past we would see and e-postmark date of 12am 4/18/22. This year they all have 12:02 am 4/19/22.
Does anyone have any specific experience with the time zone difference and what date/time the IRS will consider these extensions filed? Are we going to have correspondence on all these extensions and have to prove the time zone difference or are they all late, period?
 

#12
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This is just speculation and my W.A.G.

I would think the IRS builds in wiggle room like they do for postmarked, paperfiled returns. e.g. They consider anything postmarked within 7 days after the deadline as timely filed as there can be local and systemic problems like mail piling up and not getting postmarked until days later.

I think it's very possible the IRS considers efiled returns e-postmarked within a certain number of hours of US ET zone (or GMT, whatever) as timely filed.

For example, accepting all returns e-postmarked by 5am US ET the day after the deadline means that a return filed with an ERO in Hawaii but a transmitter on the east coast is timely filed, as long as it was timely filed in the ERO's local time zone.

To do otherwise would create a mess of notices and compliance issues. I don't think the IRS has that much time to spare for such a low reward activity.
 


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