645 Election - Are two EIN's needed?

Hey all,

Client with a spouse that passed away. Deceased spouse had a revocable trust with assets in the trust. No assets are going through probate. Their lawyer wants to go ahead with the 645 election purely to get the extended filing deadline and to wrap the trust up in a single year return.

From my review of the 645 election, I am unclear if both the trust and estate each need it's own EIN. There is no estate per se, everything is held in the trust.

Can I file the 645 election, and subsequent return, with only an EIN for the trust?

Thanks!

Yes.

If after two years, the trust is still open, you supposed to apply for a new EIN and revert to a calendar year.

Yes.

If after two years, the trust is still open, you supposed to apply for a new EIN and revert to a calendar year.

Thanks Michaelstar,

On Form 8855, the election form, do you suggest putting the Trust's EIN in both the sections for the Estate, and the Trust? Or leave the Estate EIN blank?

My suggestion would be to use the EIN of the filing Trust in both Part I and Part III.

You are making an "Election To Treat a Qualified Revocable Trust as Part of an Estate" which is why you would want to use the EIN of the electing trust.

My suggestion would be to use the EIN of the filing Trust in both Part I and Part III.

You are making an "Election To Treat a Qualified Revocable Trust as Part of an Estate" which is why you would want to use the EIN of the electing trust.

Thank you! I appreciate your help.

No assets are going through probate.

Does this mean an executor does not exist? My understanding is that if a will exists, then an executor exists, and you need a separate EIN for the estate in order to file an estate income tax return.

Reg §1.645-1(e)(2)(ii) Filing requirements

(A) Filing the Form 1041 for the combined electing trust and related estate during the election period. If there is an executor, the executor files a single income tax return annually (assuming a return is required under section 6012) under the name and TIN of the related estate for the combined electing trust and the related estate. Information regarding the name and TIN of each electing trust must be provided on the Form 1041 as required by the instructions to that form.

No assets are going through probate.

Does this mean an executor does not exist? My understanding is that if a will exists, then an executor exists, and you need a separate EIN for the estate in order to file an estate income tax return.

Reg §1.645-1(e)(2)(ii) Filing requirements

(A) Filing the Form 1041 for the combined electing trust and related estate during the election period. If there is an executor, the executor files a single income tax return annually (assuming a return is required under section 6012) under the name and TIN of the related estate for the combined electing trust and the related estate. Information regarding the name and TIN of each electing trust must be provided on the Form 1041 as required by the instructions to that form.

Not sure. I will have to look more into that. Part of my research led me to this, which makes me think they are ok without an executor.

"The 645 election is available even in the absence of a formal probate administration. A 645 election may be made by a trustee acting alone if the trustee represents that, to his or her knowledge and belief, there is no executor and one will not be appointed"

Your entity is a trust. You are electing to be treated as a decedent's estate for tax purposes. You have a trustee, not an executor or personal rep.

Don't get an EIN for an entity that does not exist. I have never had to get an EIN for a decedent's estate, when no probated estate exists.

Does a will exist? Probably. Is the will ever going to be acknowledged by a legal authority? From the facts, no. There is no executor in my neck of the woods until the courts acknowledge the existence of an executor.

On Form 8855, the election form, do you suggest putting the Trust's EIN in both the sections for the Estate, and the Trust?

Yes, exactly.

"The 645 election is available even in the absence of a formal probate administration. A 645 election may be made by a trustee acting alone if the trustee represents that, to his or her knowledge and belief, there is no executor and one will not be appointed"

Exactly again.

Part I says “Estate (OR FILING TRUST)” for a reason. If there’s no estate, there’s no executor. So there’s no executor to consent to the election, hence the trustee of the Filing Trust being the sole party to consent to the election and hence the words in the second italicized section directly above about what that Trustee is representing.

Doug’s got it right.

I appreciate the responses Doug & Jeff. It makes sense and I feel comfortable filing the election this way.