Interest rate swap payments & 163j

I have always grouped monthly interest rate swap payments in with interest expense on the tax return. With the upcoming changes to the 163(j) calculation, I may have some clients that run into an interest expense limitation. After doing some reading, it looks like periodic swap payments are not considered interest expense and would not be included in the 163(j) limitation calculation. Has anyone run into this, and can confirm/deny? I was surprised but this would be a big help.

https://www.thetaxadviser.com/issues/20 ... risks.html

https://www.taxnotes.com/research/feder ... aler/1g1hx

Thanks - that is in line with what I had read as well. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something in the 163j regulations. There is discussion about tax avoidance and nonperiod payments.