Too Harsh on Admin Employee?

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#1
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Yes the job is hard, but the 2 other admin employees do not make so many critical mistakes.

After several mistakes over the last 15 months and attempts at coaching the employee on these issues, the employee:

1) Sent a full set of payroll tax returns and UI docs (filled with salaries, W2s, SS#s, etc to the wrong client) via sharefile. Then didn't tell us. We discovered it later and cancelled the link, no thanks to her. Instead she kept it from us and we only saw it in the sent folder because she sent another email saying to disregard the first, and here are the correct docs.

We have coached her SEVERAL times to triple check all docs before sending them. And to have us check her drafts. And we said several times, "there is no pressure or hurry to send these things, go slow, ask us to check them first, there's no quota on your production, quality over quantity, sending the wrong docs to the wrong clients is the worst mistake you can make, etc".

2) She inattentively told a client the wrong day when scheduling them. I batch several appointments into small blocks of time so I can get things done at other times. Having 2 clients show up at once is VERY hard to deal with when there are several back to back appointments proceeding.

3) An hour later, she handed the wrong docs to a client picking up. For example, she gave John Smith's docs to Tom Smith (totally unrelated). Fortunately, my partner checked them and "grabbed" them out of Tom's hands. Could you imagine telling John Smith that we cant find his docs? Or the bad review and loss of confidence from Tom (if he bothered to look at them when he got home)?

There have been several patient attempts at coaching. So this was the last straw, and I wrote her a very blunt warning that says if she cant fix these issues and prevent these mistakes, that I would terminate her. I also gave her more patient and polite coaching in the letter and verbally as well. But the gist of the letter was very blunt. "We've told you several times, and you must fix it immediately or your employment is terminated."

I was very professional, but unfortunately now..... viola, she is crying - and I feel like a jerk.



Too harsh?
 

#2
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ItDepends wrote:Yes the job is hard, but the 2 other admin employees do not make so many critical mistakes.

After several mistakes over the last 15 months and attempts at coaching the employee on these issues, the employee:

1) Sent a full set of payroll tax returns and UI docs (filled with salaries, W2s, SS#s, etc to the wrong client) via sharefile. Then didn't tell us. We discovered it later and cancelled the link, no thanks to her. Instead she kept it from us and we only saw it in the sent folder because she sent another email saying to disregard the first, and here are the correct docs.

We have coached her SEVERAL times to triple check all docs before sending them. And to have us check her drafts. And we said several times, "there is no pressure or hurry to send these things, go slow, ask us to check them first, there's no quota on your production, quality over quantity, sending the wrong docs to the wrong clients is the worst mistake you can make, etc".

2) She inattentively told a client the wrong day when scheduling them. I batch several appointments into small blocks of time so I can get things done at other times. Having 2 clients show up at once is VERY hard to deal with when there are several back to back appointments proceeding.

3) An hour later, she handed the wrong docs to a client picking up. For example, she gave John Smith's docs to Tom Smith (totally unrelated). Fortunately, my partner checked them and "grabbed" them out of Tom's hands. Could you imagine telling John Smith that we cant find his docs? Or the bad review and loss of confidence from Tom (if he bothered to look at them when he got home)?

There have been several patient attempts at coaching. So this was the last straw, and I wrote her a very blunt warning that says if she cant fix these issues and prevent these mistakes, that I would terminate her. I also gave her more patient and polite coaching in the letter and verbally as well. But the gist of the letter was very blunt. "We've told you several times, and you must fix it immediately or your employment is terminated."

I was very professional, but unfortunately now..... viola, she is crying - and I feel like a jerk.



Too harsh?


But did it cost the client $22,400?
 

#3
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Thanks for your reply, but this is apples and oranges.

Of course we all make mistakes, and I'll be the first one to admit that I make my share of them. Who wouldn't?

But you do it and then take the lesson and learn from it.

There is a substantial lack of progression in the op situation here.
 

#4
CathysTaxes  
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No you weren't too harsh. Some women deliberately turn on the tears to make themselves look like the victim. Giving clients the wrong confidential documents and not telling you, imo, would be grounds for termination instead of a strongly worded warning. One of my clients, a notary who does closings, left his briefcase in his locked car, to get lunch. His car was broken into and the briefcase stolen. Not only was he terminated for cause but he couldn't get unemployment. He had offered to pay for those I'd theft monitoring services.
Last edited by CathysTaxes on 26-Feb-2021 6:06am, edited 1 time in total.
Cathy
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#5
CathysTaxes  
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quietAccountant1 wrote:
ItDepends wrote:Yes the job is hard, but the 2 other admin employees do not make so many critical mistakes.

After several mistakes over the last 15 months and attempts at coaching the employee on these issues, the employee:

1) Sent a full set of payroll tax returns and UI docs (filled with salaries, W2s, SS#s, etc to the wrong client) via sharefile. Then didn't tell us. We discovered it later and cancelled the link, no thanks to her. Instead she kept it from us and we only saw it in the sent folder because she sent another email saying to disregard the first, and here are the correct docs.

We have coached her SEVERAL times to triple check all docs before sending them. And to have us check her drafts. And we said several times, "there is no pressure or hurry to send these things, go slow, ask us to check them first, there's no quota on your production, quality over quantity, sending the wrong docs to the wrong clients is the worst mistake you can make, etc".

2) She inattentively told a client the wrong day when scheduling them. I batch several appointments into small blocks of time so I can get things done at other times. Having 2 clients show up at once is VERY hard to deal with when there are several back to back appointments proceeding.

3) An hour later, she handed the wrong docs to a client picking up. For example, she gave John Smith's docs to Tom Smith (totally unrelated). Fortunately, my partner checked them and "grabbed" them out of Tom's hands. Could you imagine telling John Smith that we cant find his docs? Or the bad review and loss of confidence from Tom (if he bothered to look at them when he got home)?

There have been several patient attempts at coaching. So this was the last straw, and I wrote her a very blunt warning that says if she cant fix these issues and prevent these mistakes, that I would terminate her. I also gave her more patient and polite coaching in the letter and verbally as well. But the gist of the letter was very blunt. "We've told you several times, and you must fix it immediately or your employment is terminated."

I was very professional, but unfortunately now..... viola, she is crying - and I feel like a jerk.



Too harsh?


But did it cost the client $22,400?

If that client fired ItDeoends, he would have a valid reason.
Cathy
CathysTaxes
 

#6
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this is an interesting topic - I refer to things like this as "low skill, high risk".

you're asking your administrative person, with a whopping 15 months' experience, to understand what in essence are the tax-technical elements that you are responsible for; your admin person has zero interest in Circ 230 ; ID protection ; taxpayer confidentiality ; it is the tax pro's job to make sure that "administrative" functions don't compromise the situation.

have you explained the risk of sending Mr. Smith's info to the wrong Mr. Smith? does she understand there is a business issue as well, her livelihood in part depends on Mr. Smith being a client?

I would use her mistakes to teach me how to fix the process. Maybe I spend 10 seconds, throw a post-it note on Mr. Smith's documents in red ink that has first and last name, in an effort to help Mr. Smith also confirm he's getting the right file.

just a minor suggestion, but this could go on forever...practice refinement is never ending!
 

#7
smtcpa  
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I have to assume that the OP went through some of the basics on client confidentiality when he first hired this admin. And these mistakes are basic, simple, common sense mistakes and carelessness. I've had a few admins that were terrified of making these mistakes on their first day without being told. If someone doesn't understand these after 15 minutes, let alone 15 months, and doesn't have common sense to know this, that person should not be in the job.

Too harsh? Not at all. I would have fired her.


HenryDavid wrote:this is an interesting topic - I refer to things like this as "low skill, high risk".

you're asking your administrative person, with a whopping 15 months' experience, to understand what in essence are the tax-technical elements that you are responsible for; your admin person has zero interest in Circ 230 ; ID protection ; taxpayer confidentiality ; it is the tax pro's job to make sure that "administrative" functions don't compromise the situation.

have you explained the risk of sending Mr. Smith's info to the wrong Mr. Smith? does she understand there is a business issue as well, her livelihood in part depends on Mr. Smith being a client?

I would use her mistakes to teach me how to fix the process. Maybe I spend 10 seconds, throw a post-it note on Mr. Smith's documents in red ink that has first and last name, in an effort to help Mr. Smith also confirm he's getting the right file.

just a minor suggestion, but this could go on forever...practice refinement is never ending!
 

#8
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In these coaching sessions, I'm curious if you asked her why she thinks she's making these mistakes, and how she thinks she can modify her approach to prevent mistakes like this from happening in the future? Or was it mostly you talking and her listening and nodding her head?
 

#9
CathysTaxes  
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The only mistake that she made that wasn't critical, imo, was the scheduling mistake. Yes it was awkward and I'm sure one client complained because he had to wait, but not critical.

The fact that she hid the first mistake tells me that she knew it was serious.
Cathy
CathysTaxes
 

#10
ATSMAN  
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As a business owner and manager of your employees it is up to you how many mistakes you will tolerate before firing them for cause. I will give an employee at least one chance to redeem after they make a mistake and I have pointed that out. BUT If I don't see any improvement then it is time to let go.

I had a young woman working that was constantly texting or talking to her BF or friends during tax season when the counter did not have any one standing in front. But then one day I had my office door open and I saw a man waiting for her to finish her stupid conversation before she would even attend to the man. I jumped out of my office and went out to talk to the man. I pointed that out to my employee and said that I don't want this REPEATED ever again. Guess what, the next tax season I caught her again and this time I canned her!
 

#11
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ItDepends wrote:Thanks for your reply, but this is apples and oranges.

Of course we all make mistakes, and I'll be the first one to admit that I make my share of them. Who wouldn't?

But you do it and then take the lesson and learn from it.

There is a substantial lack of progression in the op situation here.


Im with you... she has to go.

This business is not for everyone.

I have has umpteen college interns that within 2 weeks grasp the sensitivity and do a great job.
 

#12
novacpa  
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She shouldn't be doing that job.
You have to hire compulsive obsessive personalities for that position, she's not it,
and likely never will be.
 

#13
Twin Turbo Z  
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:lol: No. Not too harsh. Fire their ass !! Too many snowflake's being raised in this era. Hell we got our asses reamed if we did that. And we never made the same mistake again after the ass chewing !! Snowflakes, got to love them :lol:
 

#14
AlexCPA  
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Whenever I encounter issues with employees, I ask myself which of the following two categories those issues fall into:

1. Doesn't know;
2. Doesn't care.

While it is typically possible to address "doesn't know" issues, I personally find it very difficult if not impossible to address "doesn't care" issues. This is because, if their competitive wages (even wages above the average) are not adequate to influence them to care, then I don't know what will.

Another way I look at it is, "if this person was offered one million dollars to make sure that X, Y, and Z are done right, would X, Y and Z get done right?" If the answer is yes, then that typically provides a clear path forward.

A little while back I noticed that my administrative employee was falling behind on tasks. I check the cameras and surely enough, this person spent about 1.5-2.0 hours texting over the course of 7-hour day (while periodically looking back to see if I was watching) instead of doing the assigned work. That employee was fired the next day because this was clearly a "doesn't care" matter. Maybe some would say that that is harsh, but they are also free to hire these people away from me. :D
Even more of my antics may be found on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXDitB ... sMwfO19h7A
 

#15
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Ending any relationship is difficult and has the potential to make you feel like a jerk, no matter how well justified that end may be. The fact that you feel like a jerk because she is crying is because you have empathy, not because you handled it in an inappropriate manner.
I agree with many above that this would have been cause for a well justified termination.

She has an opportunity to increase her attention to detail and you have the obligation to oversee her work more closely to confirm she has stepped up to the plate in that regard. If either of you fail in these respects, the service of your business will suffer.
I think many of the folks above don't have the ability or desire to increase their oversight of a person in this role. In that case, it is worth finding someone new to fill that position. That said, employee turnover is incredibly disruptive and costly. If she can improve her habits, you will both be better off.

So much nuance and situation/circumstance specific dynamics in these cases, it's nearly impossible to get a good feel for them from questions/answers on a discussion board.
~Captcook
 

#16
CathysTaxes  
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ATSMAN wrote:As a business owner and manager of your employees it is up to you how many mistakes you will tolerate before firing them for cause. I will give an employee at least one chance to redeem after they make a mistake and I have pointed that out. BUT If I don't see any improvement then it is time to let go.

I had a young woman working that was constantly texting or talking to her BF or friends during tax season when the counter did not have any one standing in front. But then one day I had my office door open and I saw a man waiting for her to finish her stupid conversation before she would even attend to the man. I jumped out of my office and went out to talk to the man. I pointed that out to my employee and said that I don't want this REPEATED ever again. Guess what, the next tax season I caught her again and this time I canned her!


Some employees, especially the younger ones, don't know when to put their phones down! Hubby is the HR manager and if an applicant responds to a notification from his/her phone, hubby terminates the interview. Hubby does not being his cell into an interview and he expects the same courtesy. He is constantly telling office staff to put their cells away.
Cathy
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#17
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"and I have experience with partnerships and real...sorry......I have to take this"

"Hey, what's up man? Nooo, I'm not busy!"

:D

And when he hangs up, do you say: "Hey bro, you're right, you're not busy, and that ain't gonna change today."
 

#18
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ManVsTax wrote:"and I have experience with partnerships and real...sorry......I have to take this"

"Hey, what's up man? Nooo, I'm not busy!"

:D

And when he hangs up, do you say: "Hey bro, you're right, you're not busy, and that ain't gonna change today."


When he hangs up, he'll have to ask my admin person to find me in my office because I'll have walked back to my office at the point he answered the phone. Then, we'll have a frank conversation about priorities.
~Captcook
 

#19
novacpa  
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Collect the cell phones - give em' back at lunch, collect them after lunch, give them back at end of work day.
 

#20
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A community phone box. Very high school esque, for the millennial workers out there I guess LOL


I value my reputation, probably a bit too much, but it is a small town.
I would probably be very tempted to fire someone that gave clients docs to someone else.
 

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