Free Trial: TheSiteFactory.com

New 1040

Technical topics regarding tax preparation.
#1
philly  
Posts:
869
Joined:
14-Sep-2014 4:48am
Location:
New York
Does anyone like the new redesigned 1040 ?
 

#2
makbo  
Posts:
5540
Joined:
23-Apr-2014 3:44pm
Location:
District 13
The folks who legislated it, maybe?
 

#3
LW25  
Posts:
540
Joined:
15-Jun-2017 8:48pm
Location:
Texas
makbo wrote:The folks who legislated it, maybe?


Here’s the press release from last year:

Treasury, IRS Announce Development of Postcard-Size Form 1040 for 2019

June 29, 2018

Washington— Delivering on the promise to simplify taxes for the American people, the U.S. Department of the Treasury and the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) today announced that Americans will be able to fill out their individual income tax returns on a single postcard-size form for the 2019 tax season.

The 2018 IRS Form 1040 will replace the current Form 1040, as well as the Form 1040A and the Form 1040EZ. The IRS circulated a copy of the new form and will work with the tax community to finalize the streamlined Form 1040 over the summer.

“As part of the historic Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, this Administration committed to making taxes simple and fair for American families. We are delivering on this promise,” said Secretary Steven T. Mnuchin. “The new, postcard-size Form1040 is designed to simplify and expedite filing tax returns, providing much-needed relief to hardworking taxpayers.”

This simplified Form 1040 will streamline tax returns so that all 150 million taxpayers can use the same form. The new form consolidates the three versions of the 1040 into one simple form. The IRS will still obtain the information from each taxpayer needed to determine their tax liability or refund.


https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/sm421

Here’s the additional verbiage that should have been included in this press release:

Of course, to assist your elected members of Congress in trying to fool the average taxpayer into thinking that this is somehow a simplification, we at the Treasury Department have taken many of the lines that were on the two page long form 1040 for 2017 and we have put them on new schedules, numbered one through 6, so that what was a two page form is really now an eight page form. We realize that your elected representatives are trying to pull a fast one on the average person, but we’ve done the best we can under the circumstances.
 

#4
Posts:
360
Joined:
4-Mar-2018 9:03pm
Location:
Georgia
philly wrote:Does anyone like the new redesigned 1040 ?


Probably about as much as anyone likes someone coming into their kitchen and mixing up the pieces of a half completed puzzle.
 

#5
makbo  
Posts:
5540
Joined:
23-Apr-2014 3:44pm
Location:
District 13
It's worth remembering that most DIYers never see the actual IRS forms as filled out, they only see the summary results, usually spread across several screens on their device. Not much will change for them from last year in terms of display. And for pros, anyone really know how many clients actually look at the 1040, let alone other schedules/forms, unless you sit them down and make them?
 

#6
LW25  
Posts:
540
Joined:
15-Jun-2017 8:48pm
Location:
Texas
makbo wrote:[ . . . ] And for pros, anyone really know how many clients actually look at the 1040, let alone other schedules/forms, unless you sit them down and make them?


Yeah, who knows how many clients actually study every page of a manual return before signing it and mailing it?

I'm guessing that the people who will be most affected by the "chopped up" 2018 Form 1040 will be individuals who prepare their own returns manually -- without a computer, using just the paper forms and the instructions. However, these days, I guess folks like that are becoming a smaller minority.
 

#7
Posts:
2988
Joined:
21-Apr-2014 7:01am
Location:
Near the fridge.
Who you callin' a "smaller minority"?

I am just as big as I ever was!

And just to make it clear: in addition to the paper forms and instructions, I also use a slightly dull number two pencil to prepare my returns. In flagrant disregard, likely, of any IRS instructions to use a black or blue ball-point pen, right? And then I sign and submit a *photocopy* of the pencil originals. No complaints yet, and I've been doin' it this way for years and years.
 

#8
LW25  
Posts:
540
Joined:
15-Jun-2017 8:48pm
Location:
Texas
Harry Boscoe wrote:[ . . . ] I also use a slightly dull number two pencil to prepare my returns. In flagrant disregard, likely, of any IRS instructions to use a black or blue ball-point pen, right? And then I sign and submit a *photocopy* of the pencil originals. No complaints yet, and I've been doin' it this way for years and years.


Yep, that's the way we prepared many returns back when I started in public accounting, nearly 40 years ago: Fill out the actual paper forms with a number 2 soft lead pencil, photocopy them, and send the photocopy to the client for signature.

At that time, we used the pencil process mainly on 1041, 1065, 1120 and 1120S returns. Even 40 years ago, many of our 1040 returns were being done on a computer -- except that there were no personal computers. We filled out dorky computer input sheets, and the input sheets had to be sent -- by bus -- to New Orleans, for processing. In a few days, we received the "final" Form 1040. Sometimes there were further changes, and it went back to New Orleans, etc.

Some of our 1120 and 1065 returns were done in a similar way -- I think we used "Fasttax" (spelling?), based in Dallas I think. I always hated the Fasttax imput sheets, They did not bear much similarity to the actual IRS forms.

I started at a fairly large local firm and, even though I was officially in the audit department, I (like almost everyone else in the firm) prepared tax returns. I think I counted about a hundred returns that I prepared in my first tax season, from the beginning of February to April 15.

One great thing about doing so many returns manually, with pencil, was that you really, really learned the nitty gritty of how all the numbers flowed and inter-related.
 

#9
CrowCPA  
Posts:
233
Joined:
25-Apr-2014 3:27pm
Location:
New England
Yes, folks. I can attest to the fact that we did it that way. I worked for a local firm when I started at this 40 years ago. We used the pencil then photo copy method for all returns. And back then copiers were not as good as they are today. You had to have special paper. And they smelled bad.

LW's comment in boldface above is right on target. This is not simplification for most. Except for the fact that most taxpayer will no longer have itemized deductions it is all smoke and mirrors. And in some states parts of the itemized deductions still impact the state returns.
 

#10
Dennis2  
Posts:
238
Joined:
18-Feb-2016 11:08am
Location:
New York State
50 years ago, before the photocopier, we used carbon paper...♫. 40 years ago we had a computer {Commodore 64) for 1040,w..
and a photocopier.
 

#11
EADave  
Posts:
926
Joined:
22-Apr-2014 9:25pm
Location:
Texas
Oh yes, I too remember the old days when kids “played outside” instead of on their devices for 8 hours a day; adults too.

But that soft #2 pencil just got to me. Almost like nails on a chalk board; I just couldn’t bare it in school. I just had to be the nerd with the Bic .007 lead, even though the teacher would give me scowls for doing so. And you also had to sharpen the #2 just to have a freshly sharpened pencil break as you applied pressure to the paper; INSANITY! Always go against the grain folks, but respectfully.
 

#12
Bob A  
Posts:
136
Joined:
2-Mar-2015 5:56am
Location:
FLA
philly wrote:Does anyone like the new redesigned 1040 ?




Actually, I couldn't care less. Makes no diff to me...
 

#13
Posts:
2028
Joined:
13-Sep-2014 9:37am
Location:
U.S. Capitol
I bared it in second grade and got spanked.
 

#14
Posts:
448
Joined:
21-Apr-2014 11:29am
Location:
California
To take two pages and make it into seven pages - total waste of time and effort on who's ever dumb idea that was.

But let me guess - they probably never prepared a single tax return in their life and gave the directions to a programmer~
 

#15
EZTAX  
Posts:
690
Joined:
24-Apr-2014 6:48pm
Location:
California
I'm thinking it might be a learning curve to do the double checking. We will have to see how it goes this season and do what we need to do.
 

#16
makbo  
Posts:
5540
Joined:
23-Apr-2014 3:44pm
Location:
District 13
Michaelstar wrote:gave the directions to a programmer~

Hey! Programmers don't design paper forms! Don't put any blame on them!

Michaelstar wrote:total waste of time and effort on who's ever dumb idea that was.

Probably Putin's idea. :lol:
 

#17
Posts:
448
Joined:
21-Apr-2014 11:29am
Location:
California
Hey! Programmers don't design paper forms! Don't put any blame on them!

It is that kind of programmers mentality - change it even if it's not broke / just to get a different look - that seems to be behind the thought process in changing the previous page 1 & 2 of the 1040 as I see it.

Have not been around as long as Dennis but I remember the computax input forms that where just plain horrible. They were formatted/set up in a way that had absolutely nothing to do with the tax forms.

To bifurcate 2 pages into 7 is just a really dumb idea. That is my story and I'm sticking to it.
 

#18
CathysTaxes  
Moderator
Posts:
1767
Joined:
21-Apr-2014 9:41am
Location:
Suburb of Chicago
Michaelstar wrote:To take two pages and make it into seven pages - total waste of time and effort on who's ever dumb idea that was.

But let me guess - they probably never prepared a single tax return in their life and gave the directions to a programmer~

No way a programmer thought this up. Successful programmers are detail oriented, meticulous, and organized.
Cathy
CathysTaxes
 

#19
makbo  
Posts:
5540
Joined:
23-Apr-2014 3:44pm
Location:
District 13
Michaelstar wrote:It is that kind of programmers mentality - change it even if it's not broke / just to get a different look - that seems to be behind the thought process in changing the previous page 1 & 2 of the 1040 as I see it.

You are completely wrong about this. Can you truly be so astoundingly unaware of how the change came to be? What's sad is to think you might be spreading this gross misinformation to your clients. :cry:
 

#20
jon  
Posts:
661
Joined:
3-May-2014 11:11am
Location:
minnesota
At the Ultra review last week the suggestion was made that whatever presentation the federal wants is not what we want for client and preparer copies. It was requested for those two copies combine the pages. The instructor thought that was a good idea and was going to forward it.
 

#21
Posts:
448
Joined:
21-Apr-2014 11:29am
Location:
California
[quoteYou are completely wrong about this. Can you truly be so astoundingly unaware of how the change came to be? What's sad is to think you might be spreading this gross misinformation to your clients.][/quote]

CHILL OUT!
 

#22
supdat  
Posts:
300
Joined:
25-Apr-2014 2:11pm
Location:
New York
LW25 I remember the "Fast Tax" input sheets as well. At my first job with a large accounting firm, I had to learn how to fill those out. If memory serves, they were sent to the processing center in Dallas, and then the tax returns were printed on our CPA firm printer in a few days. We could check boxes "expedite" or "super expedite" if we wanted faster service.
 

#23
supdat  
Posts:
300
Joined:
25-Apr-2014 2:11pm
Location:
New York
Michaelstar based on the link from LW25 it looks like the redesign of the form came from the top of the Administration food chain.
 

#24
lucyko  
Posts:
505
Joined:
27-Jul-2014 10:19pm
Location:
Orange County,CA
Mt tentative plan for reviewing results with clients is to use the two year summary comparison .Drake has enhanced the process by providing a separate two year summary for the state . I am generally going to stay away from reviewing the 2 page 1040 with client .
 

#25
makbo  
Posts:
5540
Joined:
23-Apr-2014 3:44pm
Location:
District 13
makbo wrote:The folks who legislated it, maybe?

I did some further research and discovered I was mistaken, the new short form was not the result of legislation. (I was thinking of the new 1040-SR for >= age 65 taxpayers, which was legislated). However, it was clearly tied directly to TCJA by numerous politicians speaking about it at the time it was released.

Per IRS mid year news release, it was simply "part of a larger effort to help taxpayers". But I still don't think the idea originated with programmers.
 

#26
Joanmcq  
Posts:
345
Joined:
22-Apr-2014 9:27pm
Location:
Nevada
The administration (and some members of Congress) had been touting the idea of “you could file your taxes on a postcard” for various ‘tax simplification ‘ schemes for years, especially the flat tax people. So with this last bit, the admin told the IRS to make it so. The form designers then had to try to figure out how to do it.

IMHO, the fact that the schedules still have the same line numbers as the old 1040 leads me to believe the form designers do not expect this design to last
 

#27
Posts:
1492
Joined:
24-Apr-2014 7:54am
Location:
Wisconsin
Joanmcq wrote:The administration (and some members of Congress) had been touting the idea of “you could file your taxes on a postcard” for various ‘tax simplification ‘ schemes for years, especially the flat tax people. So with this last bit, the admin told the IRS to make it so. The form designers then had to try to figure out how to do it.

IMHO, the fact that the schedules still have the same line numbers as the old 1040 leads me to believe the form designers do not expect this design to last


That is my general feeling as well.
 

#28
CathysTaxes  
Moderator
Posts:
1767
Joined:
21-Apr-2014 9:41am
Location:
Suburb of Chicago
Joanmcq wrote:The administration (and some members of Congress) had been touting the idea of “you could file your taxes on a postcard” for various ‘tax simplification ‘ schemes for years, especially the flat tax people. So with this last bit, the admin told the IRS to make it so. The form designers then had to try to figure out how to do it.

IMHO, the fact that the schedules still have the same line numbers as the old 1040 leads me to believe the form designers do not expect this design to last

Keeping the line numbers the same simplify coding changes, training materials and manuals. Just move the code and text to the other schedules. This is what this former computer programmer would do
Cathy
CathysTaxes
 

#29
EZTAX  
Posts:
690
Joined:
24-Apr-2014 6:48pm
Location:
California
I greatly appreciated them keeping the line numbers the same.

Ultra-tax prints out a worksheet that looks almost exactly like the old 1040. I have not had a chance to look at it closely but think we might just staple that to the front of the client copy so we can review it with them as we have done in the past.
 

#30
EADave  
Posts:
926
Joined:
22-Apr-2014 9:25pm
Location:
Texas
Good catch Spell! I mixed up my homophones and you were on it! Good on ya mate!!

I’m getting accustomed to it, but I am still groaning when I have to go to Schedule 2 or 4 (or whatever) to find the adjustments that once were on page 1. Grrrr....

The fun part in the near future is having to explain the multiple schedules to client’s mortgage brokers. Fun times!
 

#31
lucyko  
Posts:
505
Joined:
27-Jul-2014 10:19pm
Location:
Orange County,CA
Michaelaster wrote :
" to take 2 pages and make it into seven pages- total waste of time and effort on who's ever dumb idea that was "

I think we may be overlooking a couple of factors :
1) I don't have a stat but many paper filers will only have have to use the 2 pages of the 1040 and not all 6 feed-in schedules.It is not like every taxpayer is going to have 7 pages .
2) We now have a standard 1040 for all taxpayers (no more 1040 A or 1040 EZ to deal with for paper filers )
3 ) IRS has stated that with the changes to SALT they estimate 91 % of all returns will use the standard deduction

I for one don't have any problem with the new format and think it's a step in the right direction particularly because the vast majority of tax practitioners use E- file.
 

#32
Joanmcq  
Posts:
345
Joined:
22-Apr-2014 9:27pm
Location:
Nevada
Paper filers that, for the most part are only using the 1040 with no schedules would have been able to use the EZ. File an extension? It’s on a schedule. Get the teachers deduction or student loan interest? On a schedule. Have a few bucks in FTC? Another schedule.
 

#33
Posts:
274
Joined:
22-Apr-2014 12:02am
Location:
Lower 48
I think the layout is horribly confusing. The first time I looked at it with numbers in it I didn't know what I was looking at as things didn't have the logical flow we've been used to for many decades.

I think errors on review will slip by more easily this tax season than in years gone by. I use ProSystemFX and the 2-year compare form has been helpful to ferret out errors. No doubt I will be relying on it much more this year.
 

#34
Posts:
1492
Joined:
24-Apr-2014 7:54am
Location:
Wisconsin
lucyko wrote:I think we may be overlooking a couple of factors :
1) I don't have a stat but many paper filers will only have have to use the 2 pages of the 1040 and not all 6 feed-in schedules.It is not like every taxpayer is going to have 7 pages .
2) We now have a standard 1040 for all taxpayers (no more 1040 A or 1040 EZ to deal with for paper filers )


The people who don't need to use schedules are the former 1040-EZ and some of the 1040-A crowd. So they go from 1 or 2 pages to the 2 half pages. The ones who need schedules are the rest of the 1040-A and the 1040 proper crowd. So they go from 2 pages to a 3 or more page jigsaw puzzle. That's not improvement.

For e-filers, it really matter much what the form looks like. They could even do what some states do, for example NC, where the main page of the form is just a group of line numbers and dollar amounts.

EZTAX wrote:Ultra-tax prints out a worksheet that looks almost exactly like the old 1040. I have not had a chance to look at it closely but think we might just staple that to the front of the client copy so we can review it with them as we have done in the past.


I'll be using the 1040 worksheet myself more than the new 1040, but I always use the 2 year comparisons with clients. Much easier to explain why they owe money (or have a bigger refund).
 

#35
HowardS  
Posts:
870
Joined:
21-Apr-2014 3:12pm
Location:
Southern Pines, NC
I'll show them the new 1040 and all the schedules to justify why they still need me.
I suffer from depreciation.
 

#36
makbo  
Posts:
5540
Joined:
23-Apr-2014 3:44pm
Location:
District 13
supdat wrote:Michaelstar based on the link from LW25 it looks like the redesign of the form came from the top of the Administration food chain.

Yes, please let's not defame programmers -- especially for something related to taxes, of all the un-hip things to program. :oops:
 


Return to Taxation



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AZUKHiker, Bob A, cpcpaguy, Google [Bot], Harry Boscoe, HowardS, Taxalmancer and 51 guests